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	<title>Comments on: Chutzpah: Ryanair to charge £5 (and up) for boarding passes</title>
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	<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/</link>
	<description>Living the first class life -- at coach prices</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:55:54 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Ryanair To Eliminate Checked Bags &#124; Flight Wisdom</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28440</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryanair To Eliminate Checked Bags &#124; Flight Wisdom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28440</guid>
		<description>[...]  Chutzpah: Ryanair to charge £5 (and up) for boarding passes  (upgradetravelbetter.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Chutzpah: Ryanair to charge £5 (and up) for boarding passes  (upgradetravelbetter.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pretend you&#8217;re running an airline: What would you do differently? &#124; Upgrade: Travel Better</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28183</link>
		<dc:creator>Pretend you&#8217;re running an airline: What would you do differently? &#124; Upgrade: Travel Better</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28183</guid>
		<description>[...] in a discussion of Ryanair&#8217;s latest fee (a charge to generate a boarding pass), reader Mike offered this challenge for anyone criticizing the airlines for &#8220;nickel and diming&#8221; their passengers: You have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in a discussion of Ryanair&#8217;s latest fee (a charge to generate a boarding pass), reader Mike offered this challenge for anyone criticizing the airlines for &#8220;nickel and diming&#8221; their passengers: You have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve B</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28153</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 23:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28153</guid>
		<description>I blame the passengers for buying tickets on bad airlines. Instead of complaining to the airlines, stop flying Ryanair. I&#039;m complaining to all of you who are supporting their poor service. I don&#039;t plan to fly Ryanair, but don&#039;t want the other airlines to follow suite as a result of passengers making their management style profitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame the passengers for buying tickets on bad airlines. Instead of complaining to the airlines, stop flying Ryanair. I&#8217;m complaining to all of you who are supporting their poor service. I don&#8217;t plan to fly Ryanair, but don&#8217;t want the other airlines to follow suite as a result of passengers making their management style profitable.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28112</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 19:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28112</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;ve mentioned over on my blog recently, I&#039;m fine with whatever funny pricing games that Ryanair wants to play.  But I think they cross the line when they charge you for items that are -required- to actually board.  Like checking in.  Absolutely ludicrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;ve mentioned over on my blog recently, I&#8217;m fine with whatever funny pricing games that Ryanair wants to play.  But I think they cross the line when they charge you for items that are -required- to actually board.  Like checking in.  Absolutely ludicrous.</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28082</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 23:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28082</guid>
		<description>I think that after all, paying all those extra fees like getting to the remote airports that Ryanair fly&#039;s from Etc.. we end up paying the same price as a regular ticket.. But the good thing is we still get the thrill that we got a flight for 20 euro. How would you call it...living the first class life at coach prices...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that after all, paying all those extra fees like getting to the remote airports that Ryanair fly&#8217;s from Etc.. we end up paying the same price as a regular ticket.. But the good thing is we still get the thrill that we got a flight for 20 euro. How would you call it&#8230;living the first class life at coach prices&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob W</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28061</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 03:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28061</guid>
		<description>Why would anyone bother flying with an airline who treats customers as the enemies. Thank christ they aren&#039;t in Australia yet, although those frauds at Virgin Blue seem to mimic everything the low-cost European carriers do. I&#039;d rather fly full fare and at least be treated with dignity. I hope they go out of business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would anyone bother flying with an airline who treats customers as the enemies. Thank christ they aren&#8217;t in Australia yet, although those frauds at Virgin Blue seem to mimic everything the low-cost European carriers do. I&#8217;d rather fly full fare and at least be treated with dignity. I hope they go out of business.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob W</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-28060</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 03:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-28060</guid>
		<description>Why would anyone bother flying with an airline who treats customers as the enemies. Thank christ they aren&#039;t in Australia yet, although those frauds at Virgin Blue seem to mimic everything the low-cost European carriers do. I&#039;d rather fly full fare and at least be treated with dignity. I hope they go out of business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would anyone bother flying with an airline who treats customers as the enemies. Thank christ they aren&#8217;t in Australia yet, although those frauds at Virgin Blue seem to mimic everything the low-cost European carriers do. I&#8217;d rather fly full fare and at least be treated with dignity. I hope they go out of business.</p>
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		<title>By: low cost airliner</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-27985</link>
		<dc:creator>low cost airliner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 10:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-27985</guid>
		<description>At least Ryanair won´t introduce the&quot;FAT TAX - viz http://blog.flylowcostairlines.org/2009/05/08/ryanair-will-not-introduce-fat-tax/. It is really too much...I don´t think O´Leary has the best strategy he could have voted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least Ryanair won´t introduce the&#8221;FAT TAX &#8211; viz <a href="http://blog.flylowcostairlines.org/2009/05/08/ryanair-will-not-introduce-fat-tax/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="liexternal">http://blog.flylowcostairlines.org/2009/05/08/ryanair-will-not-introduce-fat-tax/</a>. It is really too much&#8230;I don´t think O´Leary has the best strategy he could have voted.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-27973</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 17:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-27973</guid>
		<description>Mind of J - apologies in belaboring this, but i was rereading your equation, as i think it is a valuable tool, and your assertions.  However a quick search on airline speed does meet your initial 50 knot assertion.

1) 1930s-1950s DC-3 - Credited with beginning commercial airline travel in the US. Cruise speed = 130kn, Range = 1,025 miles
2) 1950s-1970s DC-6 - Cruise speed = 264kn, Range = 3,010 miles
3) 1960-1970s Boeing 707 - Credited with ushering in the Jet Age Cruise speed = 540kn, Range = 4,235 miles
4) 1980s-Today Boeing 737 - Cruise speed = 447kn, Range = 4,500 miles
(all stats above were found within http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline)

So looking at your assertion above, if inception is the 1950s, airline speed has increased 320kn, but if you say it&#039;s the start of the jet age, then the cruising speed has actually come down 93kn.  So to come back to your point, you are right in your equation and that airlines have been significantly slowing down their planes, but i think it pays to back up your facts with data rather than guessing.  

Thus to make an assertion on the number of amenities to have dropped 50% is a bit speculative, don&#039;t you think?  Do you have any data to support  the decrease in &quot;number of amenities, passenger space, and attitude toward customers&quot;?

For me, I think the most important fact is that average fare per passenger mile has been falling steadily from $0.22 a mile in 1975 to $0.13 a mile in 1993 adjusted for inflation ((http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jCfkJUL8oV0C&amp;pg=PA13&amp;lpg=PA13&amp;dq=average+plane+ticket+price+1975&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=5DZCI_x77o&amp;sig=QFLKUwH8u0-vjroFBnT-rpm85kg&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=2OsOSsj6H8HOjAf4zfHkCA&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=9#PPA11,M1).  

Since 1993, another study suggests that from 1995-2004, fare prices have dropped a further 20% when adjusted for inflation.  (http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&amp;context=iber/cpc) 

So now you have to deal with a business with slower planes and lower revenues, when inflation is taken into account, so yes amenities will likely go. So to come back to your overall argument, your equation is spot on - but please back it up with documentation.

However, going to back to my original argument, can you see why airlines are now &quot;nickle and diming&quot; you?  You have a cut throat competitive industry, with bloated infrastructure costs, the inability to raise prices in line with inflation and a customer base which expects 5 star treatment.  If you put your business hat on - what would you do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mind of J &#8211; apologies in belaboring this, but i was rereading your equation, as i think it is a valuable tool, and your assertions.  However a quick search on airline speed does meet your initial 50 knot assertion.</p>
<p>1) 1930s-1950s DC-3 &#8211; Credited with beginning commercial airline travel in the US. Cruise speed = 130kn, Range = 1,025 miles<br />
2) 1950s-1970s DC-6 &#8211; Cruise speed = 264kn, Range = 3,010 miles<br />
3) 1960-1970s Boeing 707 &#8211; Credited with ushering in the Jet Age Cruise speed = 540kn, Range = 4,235 miles<br />
4) 1980s-Today Boeing 737 &#8211; Cruise speed = 447kn, Range = 4,500 miles<br />
(all stats above were found within <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="liwikipedia">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline)</a></p>
<p>So looking at your assertion above, if inception is the 1950s, airline speed has increased 320kn, but if you say it&#8217;s the start of the jet age, then the cruising speed has actually come down 93kn.  So to come back to your point, you are right in your equation and that airlines have been significantly slowing down their planes, but i think it pays to back up your facts with data rather than guessing.  </p>
<p>Thus to make an assertion on the number of amenities to have dropped 50% is a bit speculative, don&#8217;t you think?  Do you have any data to support  the decrease in &#8220;number of amenities, passenger space, and attitude toward customers&#8221;?</p>
<p>For me, I think the most important fact is that average fare per passenger mile has been falling steadily from $0.22 a mile in 1975 to $0.13 a mile in 1993 adjusted for inflation ((http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jCfkJUL8oV0C&amp;pg=PA13&amp;lpg=PA13&amp;dq=average+plane+ticket+price+1975&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=5DZCI_x77o&amp;sig=QFLKUwH8u0-vjroFBnT-rpm85kg&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=2OsOSsj6H8HOjAf4zfHkCA&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=9#PPA11,M1).  </p>
<p>Since 1993, another study suggests that from 1995-2004, fare prices have dropped a further 20% when adjusted for inflation.  (<a href="http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&amp;context=iber/cpc" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="liexternal">http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&amp;context=iber/cpc</a>) </p>
<p>So now you have to deal with a business with slower planes and lower revenues, when inflation is taken into account, so yes amenities will likely go. So to come back to your overall argument, your equation is spot on &#8211; but please back it up with documentation.</p>
<p>However, going to back to my original argument, can you see why airlines are now &#8220;nickle and diming&#8221; you?  You have a cut throat competitive industry, with bloated infrastructure costs, the inability to raise prices in line with inflation and a customer base which expects 5 star treatment.  If you put your business hat on &#8211; what would you do?</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-27972</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 17:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-27972</guid>
		<description>Since it&#039;s a mandatory fee, it should be included in the advertised price.  I give it a fee months (the EU isn&#039;t always fast) until they are forced to reverse course.

And I&#039;d think anyone who ever gets hit with the 40 pound airport checkin fee will likely be a lost customer for the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since it&#8217;s a mandatory fee, it should be included in the advertised price.  I give it a fee months (the EU isn&#8217;t always fast) until they are forced to reverse course.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d think anyone who ever gets hit with the 40 pound airport checkin fee will likely be a lost customer for the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-27968</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 12:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-27968</guid>
		<description>To the Mind of J - the reason i like commenting on Mark&#039;s board is that people express their thoughts and opinions without bringing it down to school yard conversations- like &quot;how about the morons who fly them? Flying buses?&quot; or &quot;Once again, I blame it on cheap, stupid customers who ruin the whole thing for the more discerning ones who are sadly in the minority.&quot; 

If you are referring to me, I am a card carrying platinum medallion member on Skyteam and premier executive on Star Alliance - i travel a lot.  And i believe a KLM 737-800 is just as much of a flying bus than Ryanair&#039;s 737-800.  

At the end of the day, i do see the legacy carriers enacting these same types of fees.  My guess is, because airlines are beginning to break down their P&amp;L statements, they are starting to line item every cost center and figuring out how to make it profitable.  If the company was Walmart, we would say it was brilliant supply chain management.  But since it&#039;s an airline, no one can admit, that airlines are supposed to be profit generating businesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the Mind of J &#8211; the reason i like commenting on Mark&#8217;s board is that people express their thoughts and opinions without bringing it down to school yard conversations- like &#8220;how about the morons who fly them? Flying buses?&#8221; or &#8220;Once again, I blame it on cheap, stupid customers who ruin the whole thing for the more discerning ones who are sadly in the minority.&#8221; </p>
<p>If you are referring to me, I am a card carrying platinum medallion member on Skyteam and premier executive on Star Alliance &#8211; i travel a lot.  And i believe a KLM 737-800 is just as much of a flying bus than Ryanair&#8217;s 737-800.  </p>
<p>At the end of the day, i do see the legacy carriers enacting these same types of fees.  My guess is, because airlines are beginning to break down their P&amp;L statements, they are starting to line item every cost center and figuring out how to make it profitable.  If the company was Walmart, we would say it was brilliant supply chain management.  But since it&#8217;s an airline, no one can admit, that airlines are supposed to be profit generating businesses.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/05/15/chutzpah-ryanair-to-charge-5-and-up-for-boarding-passes/#comment-27959</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 19:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/?p=3081#comment-27959</guid>
		<description>Note the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/business/global/15fly.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;following&lt;/a&gt; re: EU regulation of airline advertising:

&lt;blockquote&gt;After 18 months of pressure from the European Commission to stop misleading consumers in advertising or on their Web sites, only 16 out of the top 67 airlines are obeying the law in full, according to a study published Thursday.

Although another 39 carriers have made improvements or said they would fall into line, 12 have rejected complaints from Brussels or simply failed to respond, said the commission, the executive body of the European Union.
[...]
 The companies that were determined to be refusing to cooperate were Olympic, Aeroflot, airBaltic, Emirates, MyAir, Northwest Airlines, Royal Air Maroc, Turkish Airlines, Wind Jet, Germanwings, Niki and SkyEurope.

Janis Vanags, vice president for corporate communications at airBaltic, said his company would remove prechecked boxes from its site “as soon as other airlines do the same,” adding, “So far we have not seen it as widespread practice to remove them.”

The 16 companies given a clean bill of health include SAS, Finnair, Virgin Atlantic, Iberia, TAP and Tarom.

By far the biggest grouping, made up of 38 airlines, fell into a grey zone. These include low-cost operators like easyJet, Wizz Air and Ryanair and national flag carriers including Austrian Airlines, BA, Air France-KLM, LOT and Lufthansa.

These carriers had given commitments that the problems raised “have already been addressed or will be addressed shortly,” according to the commission — a carefully crafted phrase apparently designed more to satisfy lawyers than air travelers.

The lack of clarity was compounded by the Danish consumer ombudsman, Henrik Saugmandsgaard Oe. He said that he was still seeking enforcement action against three of the “gray zone” companies — Ryanair, Air Berlin and Aer Lingus — because of breaches in Denmark.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/business/global/15fly.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="liexternal">following</a> re: EU regulation of airline advertising:</p>
<blockquote><p>After 18 months of pressure from the European Commission to stop misleading consumers in advertising or on their Web sites, only 16 out of the top 67 airlines are obeying the law in full, according to a study published Thursday.</p>
<p>Although another 39 carriers have made improvements or said they would fall into line, 12 have rejected complaints from Brussels or simply failed to respond, said the commission, the executive body of the European Union.<br />
[...]<br />
 The companies that were determined to be refusing to cooperate were Olympic, Aeroflot, airBaltic, Emirates, MyAir, Northwest Airlines, Royal Air Maroc, Turkish Airlines, Wind Jet, Germanwings, Niki and SkyEurope.</p>
<p>Janis Vanags, vice president for corporate communications at airBaltic, said his company would remove prechecked boxes from its site “as soon as other airlines do the same,” adding, “So far we have not seen it as widespread practice to remove them.”</p>
<p>The 16 companies given a clean bill of health include SAS, Finnair, Virgin Atlantic, Iberia, TAP and Tarom.</p>
<p>By far the biggest grouping, made up of 38 airlines, fell into a grey zone. These include low-cost operators like easyJet, Wizz Air and Ryanair and national flag carriers including Austrian Airlines, BA, Air France-KLM, LOT and Lufthansa.</p>
<p>These carriers had given commitments that the problems raised “have already been addressed or will be addressed shortly,” according to the commission — a carefully crafted phrase apparently designed more to satisfy lawyers than air travelers.</p>
<p>The lack of clarity was compounded by the Danish consumer ombudsman, Henrik Saugmandsgaard Oe. He said that he was still seeking enforcement action against three of the “gray zone” companies — Ryanair, Air Berlin and Aer Lingus — because of breaches in Denmark.</p></blockquote>
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