Comments on: Would an anti-Tony Blair shirt get me in trouble in the U.S.? http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/ Living the first class life -- at coach prices Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:17:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1456 By: Stressed Flight Attendant http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-22161 Stressed Flight Attendant Sun, 08 Jun 2008 05:30:59 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-22161 There seems to be some confusion with the term 'security issue/ threat'... this means anything which affects, or has the potential to affect, the safety of the flight from a security/order perspective... sure you might not think the t-shirt is offensive, but it may offend others, or start arguments. We all know the saying about politics and religion.... It would be the same if one passenger made disparaging comments to another.. it is not acceptable and the crew wish to stamp it out before it becomes a problem. I've had to send passengers back to ground services for wearing offensive t-hirts (nudity, language) or for inappropriate behaviour/language. Terms and conditions do state that boarding is at the discretion of the airline and the operating crew members- if they feel that safety or order will be compromised they have the right to act- whether that particular circumstance is mentioned specifically or not. You can't cover every situation in the T&C's of carriage. There seems to be some confusion with the term ’security issue/ threat’… this means anything which affects, or has the potential to affect, the safety of the flight from a security/order perspective… sure you might not think the t-shirt is offensive, but it may offend others, or start arguments. We all know the saying about politics and religion….

It would be the same if one passenger made disparaging comments to another.. it is not acceptable and the crew wish to stamp it out before it becomes a problem.

I’ve had to send passengers back to ground services for wearing offensive t-hirts (nudity, language) or for inappropriate behaviour/language.

Terms and conditions do state that boarding is at the discretion of the airline and the operating crew members- if they feel that safety or order will be compromised they have the right to act- whether that particular circumstance is mentioned specifically or not. You can’t cover every situation in the T&C’s of carriage.

]]> By: Dangerous shirts see their day in court » Upgrade: Travel Better http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-15902 Dangerous shirts see their day in court » Upgrade: Travel Better Mon, 13 Aug 2007 03:36:59 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-15902 [...] - Would an anti-Tony Blair shirt get me in trouble in the U.S.? - Short hops - August 23, 2006 - JetBlue rewards one flyer a free t-shirt (in exchange for his [...] […] - Would an anti-Tony Blair shirt get me in trouble in the U.S.? - Short hops - August 23, 2006 - JetBlue rewards one flyer a free t-shirt (in exchange for his […]

]]> By: Ponzo http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-14720 Ponzo Fri, 11 May 2007 02:48:17 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-14720 This guy got in trouble at airports in Britain and Australia. The irony is that had he worn this stuff at an American airport, no one would have batted an eyelash. This guy got in trouble at airports in Britain and Australia. The irony is that had he worn this stuff at an American airport, no one would have batted an eyelash.

]]> By: Webster http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-695 Webster Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:45:17 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-695 Okay, if I get on a plane with James Dobson and I'm gay--which one of us, both offended, gets thrown off the plane? Okay, if I get on a plane with James Dobson and I’m gay–which one of us, both offended, gets thrown off the plane?

]]> By: Upgrade: Travel Better » Blog Archive » Short hops — January 22, 2007 — Danger! Danger! Edition — Dangerous flights, hotels, and t-shirts http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-694 Upgrade: Travel Better » Blog Archive » Short hops — January 22, 2007 — Danger! Danger! Edition — Dangerous flights, hotels, and t-shirts Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:17:15 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-694 [...] Dangerous shirts. Again. Remember the guy who was nearly kicked off a flight from London to Melbourne because of the “George Bush: World’s Number 1 Terrorist” t-shirt he was wearing? Looks like his month in Australia is over, and he decided to wear the same shirt on the flight back. This time, Qantas didn’t let him on board. I still think it’s a pretty silly restriction on the part of the airline, but the guy is clearly looking for publicity. [...] […] Dangerous shirts. Again. Remember the guy who was nearly kicked off a flight from London to Melbourne because of the “George Bush: World’s Number 1 Terrorist” t-shirt he was wearing? Looks like his month in Australia is over, and he decided to wear the same shirt on the flight back. This time, Qantas didn’t let him on board. I still think it’s a pretty silly restriction on the part of the airline, but the guy is clearly looking for publicity. […]

]]> By: Mark Ashley http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-685 Mark Ashley Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:47:50 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-685 Ricardo Mardi: Please do not call any commenters on this blog names. Do it again, you'll be banned. As long as you keep it polite (and don't do things like post spam!), you and others can post all you like. And besides, you don't have to support Bush to think that Jasson was wrong. You can be anti-Bush and anti-provocateur at the same time. That's a viable position. Don't paint everyone in the same color. Please also note that this thread is a month old... Ricardo Mardi:

Please do not call any commenters on this blog names. Do it again, you’ll be banned. As long as you keep it polite (and don’t do things like post spam!), you and others can post all you like.

And besides, you don’t have to support Bush to think that Jasson was wrong. You can be anti-Bush and anti-provocateur at the same time. That’s a viable position. Don’t paint everyone in the same color.

Please also note that this thread is a month old…

]]> By: ricardo mardi http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-683 ricardo mardi Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:07:54 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-683 "Look, clearly the guy’s both a jerk and a fool, and clearly he just got what he wanted - attention." -TierFlyer. I think the foolish jerk here is the one who mistakes a political statement with his own confused views about democracy. People are not jerks just cause they dislike that #1 terrorist called Bush, if anything, they are showing 10x more awareness than TF. Please TF, Bush is not everyone's hero on this planet! Read the news lately? You know? Iraq? Heard what's happening there lately?? live with it! “Look, clearly the guy’s both a jerk and a fool, and clearly he just got what he wanted - attention.” -TierFlyer.

I think the foolish jerk here is the one who mistakes a political statement with his own confused views about democracy.

People are not jerks just cause they dislike that #1 terrorist called Bush, if anything, they are showing 10x more awareness than TF.

Please TF, Bush is not everyone’s hero on this planet! Read the news lately? You know? Iraq? Heard what’s happening there lately?? live with it!

]]> By: Better Living Through Miles http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-499 Better Living Through Miles Tue, 19 Dec 2006 01:01:06 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-499 Chris: I think you may be the only person who thinks this guy is being too subtle. ;) Richard: I don't agree, but I can understand your position, to a point. The thing is, terrorism is mentioned in airports all the time. The recordings over the PA system, declaring that we are in code orange, uses the word, I believe. (I'll listen for it on Wednesday, when I fly again.) So passengers are arguably being assaulted with references to terrorism all the time. TierFlyer: I should start a what's-ok-and-what's-not poll. The example you're giving is a tough one for me. What's a "nice" shirt like that, exactly? (Please don't answer. ;) )Depends on the specifics, I guess. Is it "political" or is it purely trying to offend people on the basis of their group identity? Former, fine, latter, not. Chris: I think you may be the only person who thinks this guy is being too subtle. ;)

Richard: I don’t agree, but I can understand your position, to a point. The thing is, terrorism is mentioned in airports all the time. The recordings over the PA system, declaring that we are in code orange, uses the word, I believe. (I’ll listen for it on Wednesday, when I fly again.) So passengers are arguably being assaulted with references to terrorism all the time.

TierFlyer: I should start a what’s-ok-and-what’s-not poll. The example you’re giving is a tough one for me. What’s a “nice” shirt like that, exactly? (Please don’t answer. ;) )Depends on the specifics, I guess. Is it “political” or is it purely trying to offend people on the basis of their group identity? Former, fine, latter, not.

]]> By: TierFlyer http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-497 TierFlyer Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:58:21 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-497 Good points - and I don't think the shirt was *much* of a security threat if at all, but the silly (alleged) reason for booting the guy isn't so much the point to me. Point especially taken on the "hate language" (whatever that means :-) shirt vs. the political message. How about a nice Mohamed joke t-shirt? Bet they'd pop that out in a second and you'd be able to hear the crickets over the media outrage. -TF Good points - and I don’t think the shirt was *much* of a security threat if at all, but the silly (alleged) reason for booting the guy isn’t so much the point to me.

Point especially taken on the “hate language” (whatever that means :-) shirt vs. the political message.

How about a nice Mohamed joke t-shirt? Bet they’d pop that out in a second and you’d be able to hear the crickets over the media outrage.

-TF

]]> By: Richard http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-491 Richard Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:34:37 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-491 Frankly, I don't have a problem with the airline telling the passenger to change that shirt. Similarly, I would hope that the airline would ask a passenger to change a shirt that said "Osama Bin Laden - Number One Terrorist." My issue isn't with it being an anti-Bush shirt, its with it being a shirt that deals with terrorism. Obviously the guy is making a political statement. But after September 11th, just as you don't make *any* jokes about terrorism in an airport, you shouldn't be going around with a shirt that makes jokes or statements about terrorism. The airline has a very valid argument that *any* mention of terrorism will upset the sensitivities of the passengers, and I think they're right. Frankly, I don’t have a problem with the airline telling the passenger to change that shirt. Similarly, I would hope that the airline would ask a passenger to change a shirt that said “Osama Bin Laden - Number One Terrorist.” My issue isn’t with it being an anti-Bush shirt, its with it being a shirt that deals with terrorism.

Obviously the guy is making a political statement. But after September 11th, just as you don’t make *any* jokes about terrorism in an airport, you shouldn’t be going around with a shirt that makes jokes or statements about terrorism. The airline has a very valid argument that *any* mention of terrorism will upset the sensitivities of the passengers, and I think they’re right.

]]> By: Chris M. Dickson http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-488 Chris M. Dickson Sun, 17 Dec 2006 16:30:58 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-488 My take on this is slightly different. I don't think they're objecting to anyone disparaging anyone else, they're objecting to claims that the person wearing the shirt might be making. I have a feeling that a T-shirt saying (something like) "DUBYA IS WORLD'S #1 TERRORIST" is rather less likely to get mistaken for a T-shirt that apparently conveys the message "<i>I am the</i> world's #1 terrorist" than that one. If anything, I think the shirt is <i>too subtle</i> (!) and a less subtle picture of Bush might be less likely to cause concern among fellow passengers. My take on this is slightly different. I don’t think they’re objecting to anyone disparaging anyone else, they’re objecting to claims that the person wearing the shirt might be making.

I have a feeling that a T-shirt saying (something like)

“DUBYA IS
WORLD’S #1
TERRORIST”

is rather less likely to get mistaken for a T-shirt that apparently conveys the message “I am the world’s #1 terrorist” than that one. If anything, I think the shirt is too subtle (!) and a less subtle picture of Bush might be less likely to cause concern among fellow passengers.

]]> By: Better Living Through Miles http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-483 Better Living Through Miles Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:28:00 +0000 http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2006/12/15/would-an-anti-tony-blair-shirt-get-me-in-trouble-in-the-us/#comment-483 TierFlyer: You're right that there are explicit and implicit dress codes. I think they should be more explicit (put it in the contract of carriage!), but that's not really what's bothering me here, either. Rather, it's the fact that the airlines are playing the security card to justify an on-the-spot ruling on those dress codes. <em>You</em> may not be saying that the shirt is a security threat, but the airlines in question <em>are</em>. From the article referenced above: <blockquote><em>[...] the airlines say the T-shirt was a security issue and could affect the sensitivities of other passengers.</em></blockquote> Will a shirt that mocks Bush (or Clinton? or Ike?) affect the sensitivities of (some) other passengers? Perhaps, if they have a problem with the free expression of political beliefs. But is it a security issue? (Sidebar: To answer your question, I <em>do</em> consider political opinions different from purely racist proclamations on the front of a shirt. If you wore a shirt that said "Kill all the ___" -- fill in your choice of group here -- I wouldn't be upset if the airline kicked you off. That's going beyond an expression of opinion to the advocacy of hurting others.) But that's not the problem here. The airlines are claiming that this is a security issue. And that's BS. TierFlyer:
You’re right that there are explicit and implicit dress codes. I think they should be more explicit (put it in the contract of carriage!), but that’s not really what’s bothering me here, either. Rather, it’s the fact that the airlines are playing the security card to justify an on-the-spot ruling on those dress codes.

You may not be saying that the shirt is a security threat, but the airlines in question are. From the article referenced above:

[…] the airlines say the T-shirt was a security issue and could affect the sensitivities of other passengers.

Will a shirt that mocks Bush (or Clinton? or Ike?) affect the sensitivities of (some) other passengers? Perhaps, if they have a problem with the free expression of political beliefs. But is it a security issue?

(Sidebar: To answer your question, I do consider political opinions different from purely racist proclamations on the front of a shirt. If you wore a shirt that said “Kill all the ___” — fill in your choice of group here — I wouldn’t be upset if the airline kicked you off. That’s going beyond an expression of opinion to the advocacy of hurting others.)

But that’s not the problem here. The airlines are claiming that this is a security issue. And that’s BS.

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