Rotten in Denmark: Credit cards with mandatory PIN
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Reader Mike writes in:
I thought I’d share something I encountered on a recent vacation to Denmark. When I tried to use any of my credit or debit cards at stores, I was asked to enter a PIN code. It turns out that in Denmark, they instituted a PIN code to replace signatures, and this is different from an ATM PIN code you would have for a debit or credit card. Some stores were able to bypass the PIN and then print a receipt for a signature - hotels and some restaurants did this - but most other stores - supermarkets, mobile phone stores, gas stations - did not. I had a mobile phone store even call American Express, and eventually told me they could not process a purchase without a PIN code. As a result, we simply used the ATMs to withdraw and pay with cash.
We’ve mentioned this phenomenon before in an earlier post about the frustrations of not having a “ChipKnip” feature when traveling the Netherlands with U.S.-issued credit cards. But the chip-and-PIN requirement wasn’t nearly as widespread in Holland. We got off comparatively easy. It sounds much closer to mandatory in Denmark.
The whole point of a global credit card network like Visa or MasterCard is that you can use your card globally. If you have extra local requirements that take precedence, then Danish Visa cards might as well drop the Visa name. (Heck, call them Carlsberg cards.)
Of course, Danes can bring their cards to the U.S. to swipe and sign, so they enjoy the advantages of a global card network. But shouldn’t the major credit card networks clamp down on this kind of local variation?
Which countries are the biggest offenders? The issue seems isolated to Europe thus far. We count the UK and the Netherlands as moderately problematic. Germany and France are no problem at all. And Denmark is trouble with a capital T.
Where else? Comments are open, e-mail tips encouraged.
Related:
- We prefer Visa cards, just not yours
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October 4th, 2006 at 8:51 am |
Chip and PIN was brought in across Europe as a “security” measure.
It’s a lot of hype without much to back it up, so much so that a major Petrol chain in the UK stopped taking them for a while on the basis of them being used for fraud.
In the event that your card does not have a chip, the retailer “should” resort to the old swipe and sign. However, I had some difficulty in getting people to accept my Australian credit card with no chip.
This is more likely to be an issue with retailer education rather than an effort to keep non-European cards out.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:16 am |
The extra security of chip and pin is fairly obvious: whilst it’s relatively easy to fake a signature on a receipt (because you’ve already got an example you can copy on the back of the card) you can’t fake somebody’s PIN number.
I appreciate that this blog is written from a US-perspective, but calling Chip and PIN a “local variation” when it’s been largely adopted throughout Europe seems a bit cheeky. We might as well say that the failure to introduce Chip and PIN to the US is a local variation.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:09 am |
To the second anonymous commenter:
To clarify, my reference to “local variation” is not the EXISTENCE of chip-and-PIN. That’s fine and good, as long as there is a universal standard that remains in place, such as the alternative of swipe-and-sign for customers whose cards cannot be used as chip-and-PIN.
When you have limits like this, it’s “local variation.”
Even better, there’s local variation when it comes to the chip-and-PIN systems:
I *have* a card with a chip, and it *has* a PIN associated with it. But I couldn’t use it in the Netherlands. And I don’t think a Danish card would have worked either. I was explicitly told that ChipKnip was for Dutch-issued cards only.
Sounds like local variation to me.
October 4th, 2006 at 3:43 pm |
I have to fully agree with this post
Having been through several European countries in the past year, the variation in adoption and usage is huge. It usually comes down to how willing the place of business is to accept non-chip and pin cards - which just causes uncessary stress (and effort) for those of us with “normal” cards. And furthermore, there has been no effort (to my knowledge)within the banking/credit card industry to find a workable solution.
Bottom line: this system is down right unfriendly to those from outside the Euro zone. So lets make our banking system equally unaccessable to them and then see who’s upset.
October 4th, 2006 at 8:56 pm |
I’ve run into a similar challenge trying to use credit cards issued outside of the US at gas stations in a number of states. When swiping the card at the pump it requires you to enter a ZIP code (and won’t work if you don’t have one.) In these cases, you have to bring your credit card inside before pumping gas–and then go back inside to pay/retrieve your credit card. (Providing lots of opportunity for someone to swipe an extra time or two.)
October 4th, 2006 at 11:43 pm |
In a related practice, travel to places like South America are interesting. I loved trying to use the ATM in Venezuela. The machine times out if you don’t press a button about every 0.8 seconds. So you go through several iterations to learn the sequence and being rejected before you can get it down and process very quickly to get your money. I’ve worked in banking technology strategy for years and I’ll tell you flat out that banks are LOST in these areas. Banks, Visa, MC, AMEX, processors, the ATM network, they are lost and all protecting their own myopic interests to the detriment of their customer base.
October 13th, 2006 at 7:58 am |
The US gas station thing is a pain for non US card holders - however, you can try putting in 5 zeros as your zip code. I’ve used this a few times with my UK issued Amex card - but I don’t know if it works with other cards.
January 4th, 2007 at 10:57 pm |
[…] Remember the difficulties which blog readers (and I) shared regarding the use of American credit cards overseas, when the only way to complete a transaction was using “chip-and-PIN” technology? […]
April 20th, 2007 at 9:37 am |
[…] e-mail, he suggests this potential workaround to chip-and-PIN requirements for non-European credit card holders. He verifies that this trick works in Ireland: I don’t […]
May 18th, 2007 at 12:17 am |
Using credit cards abroad is getting more and more difficult. I remember when I wanted to pay my pre-paid cell phone in Canada with my US-issued VISA, Fido wouldn’t take it because I didn’t have a Canadian postal code.
When I was in Luxembourg, I tried using my visa issued in Korea. They wanted PIN, so I just typed in my PIN to withdraw cash, and it worked.
I don’t like this whole, you have to do this and that thing. It’s my credit card in my name. Why should I have to prove them anything? It’s kinda like you’re guilty until proven innocent.
June 29th, 2007 at 5:05 am |
I just wanted to add my 2cents to the chip and pin discussion.
The Netherlands having ChipKnip is a seperate issue than credit cards with chip+pin.
In the Netherlands the ChipKnip system is a system where you have a chip in your Debit card. You can go to ChipKnip loading stations and load up to 500 euros from your Dutch checking account on to the chip on your Debit card. This has nothing to do with the chips in Visa and Mastercards.
Also wanted to say that the Chip+Pin for Visa transactions is not limited to Europe, I was in South Korea and this was standard everywhere. Worked no problem with my Dutch Mastercard.
I think the USA is lagging behind in security. Especially with all this identity theft. If you are an international traveler you should use a credit card company that will issue you a card with a chip+pin. It’s only going to get harder and harder for you to do it the old way.
Also wanted to say that comparing the Dutch internet banking security to the USA internet banking security there is also a big difference. With my Chase account in the US I login with a username/password. Whereas with my ABN Amro account I have an e-dentifier which is a little device which I stick my atm card in. It prompts me for my pin via a keypad, and then I need to copy a code from the internet banking site into the device and it returns another secret code which i fill in in my webbrowser to logon. Also any transacation about 3K it also makes me do the security challenge to execute the transaction. I feel a lot safer when using the Dutch system.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:53 am |
Chip and Pin is in most places in South Africa too - it will eventually be everywhere. US is behind the times! In UK the retailer is responsible for fraud on swipe/sign but the card issuer is responsible when chip/pin, so retailers are reluctant to swipe/sign. However all terminals retain the facility to swipe/sign for disabled people etc (it can be a training issue) If you are obnoxious enough you are almost always able to swipe in UK.
For UK cards your ATM pin is same as chip/pin (and all UK credit/debit cards are chip/pin enabled).
Another good Chip/pin thing is that it stops a waiter double swipping your card in a restaurant.
September 5th, 2007 at 9:29 am |
The US is definitely behind the times on this (American Express Blue actually had the Chip/PIN and removed it) but I have had no problem using US issued cards in France - the Chip and PIN POS machines in restaurants are actually still more secure since the waiter generally carries it to your table and swipes it in front of you. I really do hope that the US will follow Europe soon on this, but for a variety of reasons (US online payments infrastructure) it is unlikely to happen …
October 24th, 2007 at 4:52 am |
Remember that in Denmark, most supermarkets do not accept credit cards although they have a “credit card processing device”. They only accept Danish issued debit cards, the so-called Dankort. Also, in Denmark, PIN transactions were adopted in the late 80′ies and is not related to the chip, which was adopted three years ago, where all “dankort” cards were replaced with chip cards.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:19 am |
I had problems in Feb 2007 in Denmark. Only stores along the walking street would accept my Canadian credit cards. The rest of stores simply refused. It is was a great inconvenience and I personally would not go back again due to this experience.
June 29th, 2008 at 8:33 am |
EU law makes the retailer liable for credit card fraud, where a PIN is not used. If you don’t have an EMV card (ie one with the Eurocard/Mastercard/Visa specification chip) you can present a photo-ID to the sales clerk to prove you are the named cardholder. The EMV card is far more secure than the old fashioned magnetic stripe credit card because if your card is lost or stolen, anyone who finds it has only three attempts to guess the PIN. After that the card locks, and has to be unblocked by contacting the card issuer and taking the card to an ATM.
If people are allowed to sign rather than entering a PIN, the system breaks down - unless they are forced to provide ID. These cards offer the only secure method of electronic payment at self-service machines - gas stations, DVD rental machines, ticket vending machines, and similar. North America is the world capital of card fraud because the banking system has not updated the card payment security.
France was the first country to introduce PIN cards, and as a result has enjoyed one of the lowest point of sale card fraud in the world.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:36 am |
“If you are an international traveler you should use a credit card company that will issue you a card with a chip+pin. It’s only going to get harder and harder for you to do it the old way.”
I would LOVE to - but there are no banks in the US that issue cards with chips! After constantly being unable to use a credit card at any store in Denmark, I came home and contacted all the banks I could - including international banks asking them how I could get a card with the chip, the answer is, without an address outside the US, you can’t!
So, US banks are really making it hard for Americans travelers.